Posts by Sea Breeze

17

The Good News Is: The Great-Crowd-Of-Other-Sheep Do Not Exist

by Sea Breeze in

the watchtower conflates two different groups into one fictional church-age group that according to the watchtower, are saved by works and faith/membership in the jehovah witness organization.

according to watchtower, only the now mostly dead 144k receive the promises of god regarding justification .

everbody else missed the boat and must work for their justification for a thousand years.

Sea Breeze

Vidquin,

The Kingdom of God exists in its mystery form during the church age. (Do a good study on the Kingdom parables.) In other words, God dwells inside of believers (in the temple of their hearts) and is not readily discernable. Here he writes his laws on believer's hearts instead of tablets of stone. This is a great relief to believers NOW, since both Sin and the Law are burdens to everyone, believers and unbelievers alike.

This happens when the old spirit of man is sliced off and replaced with a new spirit, one that is sinless. (The circumcision of the heart/spirit) This is how God then resides and fellowships directly with the believer, in this life.

"The hour is coming when we must worship God in spirit and truth" - Jesus

So, believers have a dual nature to contend with. Even with the internal conflicts this presents, the POWER of sin is broken (not eliminated) and is a huge improvement over when we were "dead in our trespasses".

When the believer is glorified with a sinless body, then the transformation will be complete and the sin nature is 100% eliminated from our being. Only then can the believer enter into the presence of God, body, soul, and spirit.

Both premillennialist and amillennialist agree on this. Where they disagree is whether or not the 1K yr. reign is literal or figurative. This is not a salvation issue.

However, until Augustine the early church leaders nearly all believed in a literal 1k rule of Jesus on earth for 1000 years in a literal rebuilt earthly temple in Jerusalem. Many bible prophecies require this to be in place before the coming of the Lord.

So, to recap: The temple of God is:

1. The hearts of born-again believers (Now)

2. In heaven (Now) - Isiah 6: 1-4

3. In Jerusalem (in a future rebuilt temple ) debatable among Christians today but supported by early church leaders.

@Rattigan

"There are millions of Christians who have not been anointed with holy spirit. Anointed, not born of and indwelt by the holy spirit."

I agree with VH7. If a person is not born again with Jesus himself living in their heart, they do not belong to Christ and are a self-deluded "weed" growing alongside the tares.

Romans 8:9 - "You, however, are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if in fact the Spirit of God dwells in you. Anyone who does not have the Spirit of Christ does not belong to him"

Col. 1:27 - "to whom God willed to make known what the wealth of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles is, the mystery that is Christ in you, the hope of glory".
.

62

Probability of Earth and life being how it is

by ballistic in

jw
friends

there are some things we don't know about existence and whether the earth is a simulation or even a creation.

but we can do some statistical analysis on it.. the probability of a planet like earth existing in the goldilocks zone and having a moon that perfectly eclipses the sun is extremely low, but it's not impossible.

the habitable zone (or goldilocks zone) around a star is the region where a planet could potentially support liquid water on its surface.

Sea Breeze

@TonusOH

This is why I don't see the minimal facts approach as a useful argument for the legitimacy of the Bible.

Why would you routinely make present life choices based on probability; yet make choices about your eternal welfare based on another standard?

@peacefulpete

my father was a good man

Regarding the 1975 false prophecy you said on another post:

I recall my father the PO at the time telling others that they had read too much into it.

Good men don't victim shame. Your father (and many, many others) chose to ignore 100% proof of something false yet to still characterize it as the "truth".

My question to you is: Do you think it is possible that you might have inherited a similar illogical approach to life?

62

Probability of Earth and life being how it is

by ballistic in

jw
friends

there are some things we don't know about existence and whether the earth is a simulation or even a creation.

but we can do some statistical analysis on it.. the probability of a planet like earth existing in the goldilocks zone and having a moon that perfectly eclipses the sun is extremely low, but it's not impossible.

the habitable zone (or goldilocks zone) around a star is the region where a planet could potentially support liquid water on its surface.

Sea Breeze

I've been reading a lot of Eastern Religion and existentialism

@ballistic

All these religious authors you study about the nature of LIFE are dead or soon will be, right? How much sense does that make?

@Duran

Any mention of Jesus that you claim shows he is alive, also comes from all those who are dead

Jesus claimed to be God and predicted that he would raise himself from the dead to prove it. Why would a person who raised himself from the dead lie about being the actual author of the bible although admittedly others did the penning?

If he told the truth about something as mind-boggling as a self-resurrection, why is it hard to believe that other things he said are also true?

62

Probability of Earth and life being how it is

by ballistic in

jw
friends

there are some things we don't know about existence and whether the earth is a simulation or even a creation.

but we can do some statistical analysis on it.. the probability of a planet like earth existing in the goldilocks zone and having a moon that perfectly eclipses the sun is extremely low, but it's not impossible.

the habitable zone (or goldilocks zone) around a star is the region where a planet could potentially support liquid water on its surface.

Sea Breeze

TonusOH,

At best, it is inconclusive.

Can't disagree with that. But so what? Humans rarely make choices based on conclusivity. We spin through life making choices based upon probability. That is our reality.

@TD

Jeffro carefully explained the distinction

No he did not. His statement was contradictory. He uses the word "probability" which is rooted by definition in the future to describe an artifact rooted in the past.

62

Probability of Earth and life being how it is

by ballistic in

jw
friends

there are some things we don't know about existence and whether the earth is a simulation or even a creation.

but we can do some statistical analysis on it.. the probability of a planet like earth existing in the goldilocks zone and having a moon that perfectly eclipses the sun is extremely low, but it's not impossible.

the habitable zone (or goldilocks zone) around a star is the region where a planet could potentially support liquid water on its surface.

Sea Breeze

@Blondie,

How did this topic go so far off from the original post?

The OP presupposes the following miracles:

1. Existence Comes from Non-existence

2. Order Comes from Chaos

3. Life Comes from Non-Life

4. The Personal Comes from the Non-Personal

5. Reason Comes from Non-Reason

6. Morality Comes from Matter

I am challenging these presuppositions the OP is founded upon while offering a reasonable alternative, one grounded in history, facts, and probability.

62

Probability of Earth and life being how it is

by ballistic in

jw
friends

there are some things we don't know about existence and whether the earth is a simulation or even a creation.

but we can do some statistical analysis on it.. the probability of a planet like earth existing in the goldilocks zone and having a moon that perfectly eclipses the sun is extremely low, but it's not impossible.

the habitable zone (or goldilocks zone) around a star is the region where a planet could potentially support liquid water on its surface.

Sea Breeze

That is Gary Habermas's "facts" approach.

@ TonusOH

Professor Haberman got his PHd on Resurrection sudies and was granted his doctorate by a Jew, an Atheist and a critical Christian, not exactly a friendly panel for presenting a thesis on the facts of the Resurrection. The facts presented are not his, but representative of between 75 to 95 % of all scholars (including atheists, Jewish, and otherwise) who publish in the area of 1 st century Christianity.

@Duran,

All those people you mention are dead. If people want to put their eternal fate into the hands of dead people, they are certainly welcome to do that. But, I question the liklihood of getting life from / through someone dead; doesn't make any sense.

Jesus seems to be a far better object of faith since he demonstrated that he is STILL ALIVE.

62

Probability of Earth and life being how it is

by ballistic in

jw
friends

there are some things we don't know about existence and whether the earth is a simulation or even a creation.

but we can do some statistical analysis on it.. the probability of a planet like earth existing in the goldilocks zone and having a moon that perfectly eclipses the sun is extremely low, but it's not impossible.

the habitable zone (or goldilocks zone) around a star is the region where a planet could potentially support liquid water on its surface.

Sea Breeze

no, I cannot think of any historical examples of that

And neither can anyone else..... except for one example: Many Unbelieving scholars who publish in the area of 1st century Christianity agree to the following facts surrounding the Resurrection:

Jesus died by Roman crucifixion.
He was buried, most likely in a private tomb.
Soon afterward, the disciples were discouraged, bereaved, and despondent, having lost hope.
Jesus’ tomb was found empty very soon after his interment.
The disciples had experiences that they believed were actual appearances of the risen Jesus.
Due to these experiences, the disciples’ lives were thoroughly transformed, even being willing to die for this belief.
The proclamation of the resurrection took place very early, at the beginning of church history.
The disciples’ public testimony and preaching of the resurrection took place in the city of Jerusalem, where Jesus had been crucified and buried shortly before.
The Gospel message centered on the death and resurrection of Jesus.
Sunday was the primary day for gathering and worshipping.
James, the brother of Jesus and former skeptic, was converted when, he believed, he saw the risen Jesus.
Just a few years later, Saul of Tarsus (Paul) became a Christian believer due to an experience that he believed was an appearance of the risen Jesus.”

Yet, some folks ask believers to park their common sense and just remain unbelievers with no historical support for their proposition of denial.

I can't do that.

62

Probability of Earth and life being how it is

by ballistic in

jw
friends

there are some things we don't know about existence and whether the earth is a simulation or even a creation.

but we can do some statistical analysis on it.. the probability of a planet like earth existing in the goldilocks zone and having a moon that perfectly eclipses the sun is extremely low, but it's not impossible.

the habitable zone (or goldilocks zone) around a star is the region where a planet could potentially support liquid water on its surface.

Sea Breeze

@TonusOH

You answered a question I did not ask. Again, here is the question:

Can you think of any historical examples of where hundreds of people fabricated a lie at the same time that was guaranteed to cause their loved ones to reject and shun them? Then, these same people were willing to die for something they KNEW was a lie?

62

Probability of Earth and life being how it is

by ballistic in

jw
friends

there are some things we don't know about existence and whether the earth is a simulation or even a creation.

but we can do some statistical analysis on it.. the probability of a planet like earth existing in the goldilocks zone and having a moon that perfectly eclipses the sun is extremely low, but it's not impossible.

the habitable zone (or goldilocks zone) around a star is the region where a planet could potentially support liquid water on its surface.

Sea Breeze

@TonusOH

It is my understanding...It seems more likely...So, my guess would be...

That is a substantial retraction from your earlier statement:

Thus, it's pretty clear that people will die for a lie.

So, no. You cannot provide historical examples where hundreds of people fabricated, lived and preached a lie that guaranteed many of their loved ones would reject and shun them. Then, after suffering this (the same thing many XJW's commit suicide over) these same people were willing to die for something they KNEW was a lie.

62

Probability of Earth and life being how it is

by ballistic in

jw
friends

there are some things we don't know about existence and whether the earth is a simulation or even a creation.

but we can do some statistical analysis on it.. the probability of a planet like earth existing in the goldilocks zone and having a moon that perfectly eclipses the sun is extremely low, but it's not impossible.

the habitable zone (or goldilocks zone) around a star is the region where a planet could potentially support liquid water on its surface.

Sea Breeze

TonusOH,

Thus, it's pretty clear that people will die for a lie.

Of course people will die for a lie. But, that is not the question I asked.

Can you think of any historical examples of where hundreds of people fabricated a lie at the same time that was guaranteed to cause their loved ones to reject and shun them? Then, these same people were willing to die for something they KNEW was a lie?

@Jeffro

The probability of things being the way they are is precisely 1

Your above statement is rooted in the "present", WHICH IS ALREADY THE PAST ONCE OBSERVED.

If I throw a pair of dice, the odds are very understood to the point where casinos can make millions of dollars predicting the outcome, BEFORE they happen, NOT AFTER.

It is difficult (and fascinating) to imagine how an otherwise intelligent human can believe a demonstratable lie like the one you stated.